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 glasstrips(d) |
All Surface Mix Torch and Flashback Arrestors? |
Lead | |
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Posts: 14 (12/12/04 14:12:55) |
I thought I read where one won't need flashback arrestors if they run an all surface mix torch. Is this true? I plan to move on from my CC to a GTT Phantom or Mirage and want to use just my regulator mounted quick disconnects (w/built in check valves) and not have the bulky arrestors in the chain as well. But, I want to make sure this is okay first.
Thanks! ~Garth |
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Glassroots |
Re: All Surface Mix Torch and Flashback Arrestors? | ||
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Posts: 116 (12/19/04 20:49:29) Punty Master |
w&w told me that i did not need flsback arrestors because they are surface mix torches, I trust their info and have never had a prob. It also seems logical that you wouldnt need them with a surface mix torch. check with them if you want more piece of mind
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Firekist |
Re: All Surface Mix Torch and Flashback Arrestors? | ||
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Posts: 265 (12/20/04 07:25:01) Molten Maestro |
if a surface mix torch is working properly, there should never be a flashback or reverse flow situation possible.
however! torches can have funny things happen in them.. manifolds are tricky, solder can have issues.. and sometimes you get a premix situation inside a surface mix torch that really shouldn't be there. i know i've had my beth (all surface mix) pop like a carslisle before.. i'm not sure how or why.. but it has. .. hasn't in a long long time.. but.. anyway. .. no, you're not supposed to need them on a surface mix, but.. youre not supposed to need them on a premix either.. it's when something goes wrong with either torch that you'd need them.. so.. i say keep them and use them. z--seth |
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qakkal |
Re: All Surface Mix Torch and Flashback Arrestors? | ||
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Posts: 196 (12/23/04 12:00:38) Molten Maestro |
i do not understand the need for flashback arrestors. i could be totally wrong, but they logically sound useless to me.
first of all, oxygen is NOT flammable. it is required for combustion, and pure oxygen makes a more complete combustion, but it is not flammable on its own neither is propane. they need eachother to combust. how can the propane in the lines combust if there is no oxygen in the propane lines? |
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harrryhood |
Re: All Surface Mix Torch and Flashback Arrestors? | ||
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Posts: 325 (12/24/04 11:10:30) |
im pretty sure propane is flamable by itself. you turn the prop. on first right? well that big flame is nuthin but propane...
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Danteism |
Re: All Surface Mix Torch and Flashback Arrestors? | ||
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Posts: 1200 (12/24/04 15:05:48) Administrator |
Of course propane is combustible you nut.
That's why the gas company puts the FLAMMABLE sticker on it.  Dante -- "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila." ~ Mitch Ratcliffe |
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andynaj |
re | ||
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Posts: 159 (12/29/04 23:28:15) Molten Maestro |
propane is not flamable by itself, meaning...that you cannot light propane with out oxygen, and whats in air, oxygen, so it can light oviously, but if you tryed to light it in a vacume chamber it would not light, i think thats what qakkal ment
andy |
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glasstrips(d) |
Re: re | ||
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Posts: 14 (12/29/04 23:57:43) |
So, what's the difference between a flashback arrestor and a check valve anyway?
~Garth |
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Firekist |
Re: re | ||
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Posts: 265 (01/02/05 11:46:39) Molten Maestro |
alright.. pure propane needs oxygen to burn, yes. if you had a lighter in a box of pure propane, and it sparked.. it wouldn't blow up. propane needs oxygen to combust..
check valves prevent gas from flowing the wrong way in your lines (wrong meaning towards the tank) flashback arrestors often have check valves, but not always. flashback arrestors have some sintered metal piece (which is a very porus piece of metal that air can pass through) when flashback occurs, this piece melts shut and stops all flow of gas. some flashback arrestors use some other mechanism.. but i haven't read how it works. now, like i said in my first post, these are necessary when things go WRONG. normal operation of torches should not cause a flashback, nor should gas be trying to go the wrong way in your lines. however, things can go wrong. clogged ports, liquid in ports, tanks that are almost out of gas, old tanks that were almost empty in summer being used in winter, damaged soldering.. all of these can lead to "things going wrong". i hope this clears some things up.. if not.. just read online about it.. the information is out there =) z---seth |
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garrett |
Flashback | ||
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Posts: 243 (01/02/05 17:46:40) |
I have seen a hand torch flashback and it wasn't pretty. Nearly took a kids head off. The torch made a loud POP sound and the head of it blew completely off and flew across the room. Leaving this guy with a torch handle spewing crazy big flames out of the top. It could have been a lot worse, but we cut the gas off quickly. Just goes to show the dangers of working with gas. Never underestimate or take advantage of open flames and gas sources.
If your still not convinced, go talk to your gas supplier about dangers, mine showed me pictures of what a BBQ sized propane tank can do if it explodes, and it will do some serious damage. Just my 2 cents. garrett |
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somberbear |
Re: Flashback | ||
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Posts: 292 (03/09/05 11:41:18) Flame Fanatic |
Im new to glass and metal working. But so far this is what i picked up about flashback and arrestors.
On oxy/ace welding we use premix torches. i had a few pops, and on student had a flash back nothing happend becouse the flash backs are mounted on the torch , in thoery our flash back arrestors are also used as one ways as well. And heres the squeese , propane and acytline are both non combustable with out the oxy. But both explode while pressurized over a certin psi. and yea it doesnt say combust but it will ramp up the pressure in a tank to the point where it will blow. rare but has happend. remeber safty equipment isnt there for when things go right. Im picking up a set of quick connects with flash arrestors help me move and sort hoses while cleaning and moving. and a little extra step with the flash arrestors helps me sleep a little easy. Take an Oxy/ace class some time they'll scare you into doing alot of thing. like i stand to the left of my Oxy tank when i crack it now and not infront of the regulator. As well some places require flash back or auto cut offs. arresstors for any torch. Some leases also require it. and frankly there cheap and if ya never use them they will never need replacing right. Heck I have put these on people gas stoves and fridges. oh and i saw what a couple of grill tanks can do. monster garage in there first season had to crush there car. they dropped a couple of tanks in the trunk or back seat before it went into the car crusher , and it had a good 20 foot or so fire ball comming out of a 2 to 3 story car crusher.SWEET! sorry for the ramblings. -=- I'm just practicing being a dirty old man. -=- |
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jiminyrootkit |
Re: Flashback | ||
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Posts: 714 (03/17/05 20:55:36) Rookie |
oh yeh man. stick a lit road flare on a stake about a foot from a *closed* barbeque tank. (preferably one of the old ones you can't refill anyway) back off 200 yards and shoot it with a 7mm rifle greatbigfugginbang!
-f  |
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gotglass |
Re: Flashback | ||
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Posts: 285 (03/19/05 04:58:09) Molten Maestro |
jimminy...Damn doin the hunter s. thompson trick are we?
i saw what a propane tank can do ...a guy with a roadside hotdog shack built out of a tow behind trailer... there was a leak in the connection and when he went to light the grill in the morning it blew him ten feet out the back wall of the trailer....sort of like gasoline if you douse a pile of wood and wait awhile it will burn with no big flash but if you spark it right away the fumes ignite with big flash.... with gasoline the fumes are the volatile ingredient |
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hippyjm |
Re: Flashback | ||
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Posts: 38 (04/16/05 14:30:07) Flame Fanatic |
Its called weighing your options.
Spend $75 and work without worrying if it MIGHT happen or wince everytime you light your torch/work on it incase something mechanical goes wrong inside your torch I went with option A.... |
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NUBBLET |
Re: Flashback | ||
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Posts: 404 (04/16/05 15:07:08) Inconsolable soul in |
the internal leak thing is the only real reason I see but wouldnt the oxy be so high of pressure it would be in the feul not the other way around ?
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hippyjm |
Re: Flashback | ||
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Posts: 38 (04/17/05 06:58:45) Flame Fanatic |
Its not being said that the tank will just explode. Flash back means the flame will travel TO the tanks. So there is alread combustion taking place, and the location in which it is happening moves. It travels down the line of your hosing and into the tanks. Not too sure why people dont understand that. You have a massive amount of fuel, and something burning at an opening of it. Do what you can to keep if from burning to the source.
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somberbear |
Re: Flashback | ||
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Posts: 292 (04/26/05 05:27:41) Flame Fanatic |
Its not being said that the tank will just explode. Flash back means the flame will travel TO the tanks. So there is alread combustion taking place, and the location in which it is happening moves.
^ oddly yes they will just explode. propane will explode when it is over pressurized.... Ever wonder why your propane has such a little scale over your oxy regulator. well if your oxy at say 50psi hits your propane tank by some quarky hapanstance and you dont have a one way connection , bingo bango boomo. Both pressure and flame can shoot down hoses and cause explotions. as well as propane thanks are build well but not well enough to withstand much. Oxy tanks are seamless steel, propane tanks are welded sheet metal. The only reason people think Propane is safe is becouse its so commonly used. every one i know has used propane at some point even for refridgeration. Rarely do i know people that have handled pure oxy. At the end of the day i would perfer to handle oxy to tell ya the truth. |
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